Chris Taylor said it was “tragic” that conservative rival Maria Lazar is running for the state Supreme Court after celebrating a U.S. Supreme Court decision ending the right to an abortion that the liberal candidate said has harmed victims of rape and incest.

Lazar fired back in their only debate of the race that Taylor was lying about her position. The conservative appeals court judge in turn cast Taylor as the extreme candidate in the race for proposing legislation while in the state Assembly that Lazar said would’ve allowed abortion up until the moment of birth.

“I have never wanted women injured, ever, ever, ever,” Lazar said during the debate at WISN-TV studios in Milwaukee just days before Tuesday’s election.

Taylor said Lazar has repeatedly called the 2022 ruling overturning Roe v. Wade “wise.”

“That is the reality of overturning Roe v. Wade that you have called very wise,” said Taylor, also an appeals court judge. “It has not been very wise for victims of rape or incest who now live in states where abortion has been outlawed.”

Lazar rejected Taylor’s characterization of her remarks on the Dobbs ruling, saying the decision moved the issue to the states rather than setting a national policy. She said that allows individual states to decide what’s appropriate.

Lazar also said if elected she would honor the state’s 20-week abortion ban that was left on the books after the liberal majority on the state Supreme Court last year overturned an 1849 law that had been interpreted as outlawing the procedure. 

She declined to say how she would’ve voted in that 4-3 ruling on the 177-year-old law.

Lazar also took shots at Taylor over the bill the former Dem lawmaker authored while in the Assembly. She said Taylor’s legislation, which didn’t become law, would’ve allowed abortion throughout a pregnancy, putting her out of step with the public. 

Taylor said she would’ve voted to overturn the 1849 abortion law. She added the legislation Lazar knocked her for simply sought to codify Roe v. Wade, “which my opponent doesn’t understand.” She added, “Nobody supports what my opponent is saying, nobody.”

Lazar fired back:  “It’s there, and it’s in black and white.”

The WISN-TV “UpFront” debate was originally scheduled for March 25. But it was rescheduled after Taylor was diagnosed with kidney stones. The debate was then delayed again — this time for just an hour — due to severe weather after a tornado warning was issued for the Milwaukee area.

The two had several exchanges about the state Supreme Court reversing decisions Lazar authored. Since joining the 2nd District Court of Appeals in 2022, Lazar has had three rulings overturned by the state Supreme Court in cases on the attorney general’s powers, access to voters’ personal information and discipline handed out by the WIAA, according to a WisPolitics check.

Taylor highlighted a case in which a Lazar ruling would’ve allowed a conservative activist to obtain the guardianship records of those deemed incompetent to vote. Taylor accused Lazar of failing to follow precedent, saying it shows her opponent “refuses to follow the law.”

Lazar countered that the reversals show she is independent. 

“I guess when my opponent has a few more years of judicial experience, she’ll understand that being reversed is a part of being an independent judiciary,” she said.

Taylor, who joined the 4th District Court of Appeals in 2023, noted she’s never been overturned. The Supreme Court has had a liberal majority the entire time she’s been on the appeals court.

“I am scrupulous in applying the law, and I have a spine of steel when it comes to making sure people’s rights and freedoms are protected,” Taylor said.

On other issues:

*Both declined to say whether a three-judge panel was correct this week in dismissing a challenge to Wisconsin’s congressional map as a party gerrymander.

Taylor pivoted from the question to knock Lazar for defending legislative lines Republican lawmakers drew in 2011, saying some experts had called it the most gerrymandered map in the country.

“I think it is incredibly important that every citizen who is eligible to vote has the right to pick their elected representatives, not the other way around,” Taylor said.

*Lazar said Illinois’ congressional map is gerrymandered, while “we follow the rules here” in Wisconsin as she discussed the 2011 legislative maps she defended.

“The map in Wisconsin has straight lines, and it follows communities of interest, and it followed the Constitution,” Lazar said, noting a federal court that reviewed the map changed one line between two Assembly districts.

*Both raised concerns about the SAVE Act, a federal proposal that would require photo ID to vote in federal elections and proof of citizenship. Lazar said she supports Wisconsin’s voter ID requirement, saying Taylor had opposed it. But she raised concerns about placing restrictions on mail-in voting, a proposal that President Trump has demanded be added to the SAVE Act. She called early voting “important and necessary and vital.” 

“I think it’s important that we tell people in the state of Wisconsin that our elections are safe, they’re secure, and that their votes count,” Lazar said.

Taylor declined to say how she voted last spring when an amendment was on the ballot to enshrine voter ID in the Wisconsin Constitution.

“What I do in the ballot box is nobody’s business,” Taylor said. “But I can say it is the law of the land, and I will implement the law of the land.”

Lazar accused Taylor of trying to “dismantle those protections” in the voter ID law while in the Legislature. Taylor countered that wasn’t true, adding Lazar has refused to weigh in on a 2020 lawsuit that Trump filed seeking to overturn Wisconsin’s presidential election results.

Lazar answered that the election “was valid, that Joe Biden did win.”

*Taylor defended her vote in the Legislature against a constitutional amendment adding protections for crime victims that backers have dubbed Marsy’s Law. She said domestic violence advocacy groups expressed concerns that the proposal wasn’t funded and would slow down justice “for individuals who opted to participate in the judicial system.” Lazar called it a “very good, strong law.”  

Through March 31, the candidates and the groups backing them had combined to spend about $8.9 million on the race, according to a WisPolitics tally. That’s a fraction of the record $115 million spent on last year’s campaign. The spending this year has also been in Taylor’s favor by a 9-to-1 advantage. Last year’s race was for ideological control of the court; this race will either preserve the 4-3 liberal advantage or widen it.

Lazar sought to turn that around by knocking Taylor for taking a $700,000 transfer from the state Dem Party but refusing to say whether she would recuse herself from any case involving WisDems.

Campaign finance reports show Lazar has received a $60,000 transfer from the state GOP, as well as in-kind expenditures benefiting her bid.

Taylor said she is proud of the support she’s been getting. She highlighted the number of small donations she’s received, noting her average contribution is $100.

“Tens of thousands of Wisconsinites have become part of this campaign in small contributions,” she said, adding, “That’s democracy.” 

Asked about lack of outside help from conservative groups, Lazar said she’s not running as a conservative and is not a Republican. 

“I’m running as an independent, and I think that’s the key here,” Lazar said. “I’m getting support and a big momentum and groundswell from people in this state who are tired of seeing the politicization of our state Supreme Court, and they actually want a candidate who cares about the law and not just causes or political parties.”